April 24, 2005
NIN and my conclusion…
I do not like the new album by NIN. All of it isn’t bad, but as an album it fell seriously short.
Why?
For one key point of reference, I actually skip songs. When you skip songs, that is a sure sign you don’t like the Album.
Now on the brightside, i really do enjoy several key songs. 7 i believe and 13 also… not positive.. 6 is ok also… even though trey attempted to turn trent into a pirate by writing the words out. Oh well. It can’t be all bad if the cd is in my cd player still, yet again i listen to NPR a lot. I skip like four of the songs when i’m listening to it. 2 especially. I hate 2.
April 24th, 2005 at 7:44 pm
I was trying to figure out how I felt about this album after talking to your brother about it at lunch Friday. You’ve pretty much expressed it for me: if I have to skip songs, I have a problem with it. That’s so disappointing.
April 24th, 2005 at 9:12 pm
[quote:0f627b9c95]I do not like the new album by NIN.[/quote:0f627b9c95] Yeah well that’s cause you suck(*). Granted, I’ve listened to it at least ten times in the past 48 hours. [quote:0f627b9c95]When you skip songs, that is a sure sign you don’t like the Album.[/quote:0f627b9c95] A lot of the time for me, it’s the songs that I skip over that wind up being the better ones in the long run. There are always two or three songs that I focus in on and the others don’t get enough playing time. With this album, there’s a lot going on with all these songs that you may not pick up with the first few cursory listenings. For me so far, this is the breakdown: 1. All the Love in the World–Didn’t care much for it a first, but I love it now, especially when he starts doing the piano parts. 2. You Know What You Are–Again, didn’t care much for it at first either, but love it now. A nice angry screaming NIN song. The way NIN is meant to be. 3. The Collector–I usually skip this. Hasn’t grown on me yet, doesn’t mean it won’t eventually. 4. The Hand That Feeds–Really disliked it at first. Really, really love it now. This one gets repeat listenings. Has so much going on. (Oh, and I think I’ve logged about 60 or so fan remixxes). 5. Love is Not Enough–Um…s’ok. 6. Every Day is Exactly the Same–Wonderful song. Strong lyrics. Wonderful music. Oh–and the story of my life. 7. With Teeth–I can’t say that I really like this song right now, but it does have a few things going for it. The lyrics are pretty good (other than the chorus) and it’s got that nice piano bridge placed in between all the louder heavy music. Always nice. I think I’ll come to like this one in time. 8. Only and… 9. Getting Smaller–are my two favorite tracks (that are not track 12 and 13) Go ahead. Scream it. You know you want to… “There is no you/ There is only me! There’s no fucking you/ There is only me!” flip flop flip flop 10. Sunspots and… 11. The LIne Begins to Blur–Are in the unfortunate position of coming before track 12 and 13, so they usually get skipped. Not because they’re no good, but because I want to hear the next two songs so much. Not a big fan of sunspots right now, but it does have Trent singing falsetto, which is…interesting. And TLBTB is pretty good once you get past the mediocre-ish intro (about 1:00 into it). It turns out to be pretty solid(**). 12. Beside You in Time–I think this is going to be one of those either love it or hate it kind of songs. I happen to love it, but I think of it as more of an experimental instrumental (similar to A Warm Place or Help Me I am in Hell) except with lyrics. 13. Right Where It Belongs–My favorite. The only bad thing I have to say about this one is that it keeps me from listening to the other songs. I actually put the CD in just so I can listen to this (and BYIT) several times a day. I think it’s some of the best songwriting I’ve ever seen/heard from Trent Reznor. Ever. And he’s got some nice…sound…effect…thingies(?) going on here (Hope I’m not being too technical). So there you go. In my humble opinion, about 65% of this album is awsome(***). 15% is sublime. And 20% is merely “good”. And that’s probably my fault for not listening to it more. Ron. (Still has one good arm) (*) Do I even have to say that I’m kidding? (**) That’s a characteristic of most of these songs; they kinda start out in one direction and turn out to be something totally other than what you’d expect given the opening/intro. (**) I do concede, however, I may be somewhat overstating the awsomeness of this album; but that’s directly proportional the the low expectations I had of it in the first place.
April 24th, 2005 at 9:21 pm
what controversy. i’m interested to hear the album at some point, although i doubt i’m going to like it anywhere near as much as the fragile considering i always sort of despised NiN (due to the very male, very adrenaline/testoserone driven emotional core of all the albums i had heard prior to the fragile) so i never liked NiN before david played the fragile for me (live on DVD) and won me over. i really liked the fragile because it had musically interesting instrumental sections and a wide emotional range. i thought it showed a sort of artistic maturity that the newer stuff of tori amos (who i always thought of as the feminine equivalent of NiN) is lacking. (if i can ever get past the goddamn orange knickers song, i may change my mind, but as for right now, christ, i wish she would just get over it.) ok. so david, at some point, either when i come down there or when you move up here, you’ll have to play it for me. and i need to play you this nina simone cd. 🙂 — EDIT: i just remembered the reason i first disliked NiN. my little brother had some album. either the downward spiral or pretty hate machine. and my friends liked the band. so i borrowed his album to listen to it. i was about seventeen. and there was this one song about spiders doing nasty things and that just completely disgusted me. i remembered thinking it was shock just for shock’s sake, and that it was kind of misogynist. now i don’t know what song it is. that is a NiN song, right?
April 24th, 2005 at 9:41 pm
[quote:aa2278ebc6]though i doubt i’m going to like it anywhere near as much as the fragile[/quote:aa2278ebc6] That’s because you suck(*). [quote:aa2278ebc6]despised NiN (due to the very male, very adrenaline/testoserone driven emotional core of every album prior to the fragile)[/quote:aa2278ebc6] Yeah, well there is that. But that’s the price you pay for the brutal honesty/vulnerability you get from NIN. [quote:aa2278ebc6]i liked the fragile because it had musically interesting instrumental sections and a wide emotional range.[/quote:aa2278ebc6] That’s been around in some form or another since Pretty Hate Machine. There’re a lot of musical intricacies throughout his catalogue. Sometimes you just don’t get all of it (or any of it) without repeated listings which you may not want to go through because of the, well, “very adrenaline/testoserone driven emotional core of every album”. The Fragile was just a culmination of all the sound experiments from previous albums. [quote:aa2278ebc6]Tori amos (the feminine equivalent of NiN, if you ask me)[/quote:aa2278ebc6] Indeed. Ron. (Make my own Pretty Hate Machine) (*) Um, I don’t mean it, really. See earlier post.
April 25th, 2005 at 12:46 am
ok, the song is “reptile”, and it’s not spiders – it’s “insects.” actually, it doesn’t bother me now like it did when i was seventeen… but still… i was shocked by those lyrics when i first read them; basically my sentiments were, god. how ugly. and what’s the point? i mean, it’s one thing for courtney love to write a song like “pretty on the inside” (warning, contents of link may offend), which comes off as a parody of the importance of prettiness (and of course a reflection of the drug culture in seattle in the early 90s), but it’s completely another for a man to write a song about a woman – a love interest even – being rotten like that. i don’t know how else to read that song except being – at least slightly – misogynistic. i get sarcasm and bitterness in all those pseudo-affectionate terms (“oh my beautiful liar,” “oh my precious whore”) and anger and hate because the presumably reptilian “she” of the song has “tainted” him, “infected” him, corrupted him. typical adam/eve mythos. . . you know: blame the woman – she’s in with the snake. i don’t know. i’ll just say that i, for one, am alienated by those kinds of sentiments. so. . . is there some alternate reading? or have i hit the nail on the head? is trent reznor’s music, at its core, cathartic for men who have been wronged? by women? (and, i guess, in other songs, by ‘the man’? actually, those songs i never minded, at all. now that i think about it i really did like “head like a hole” when it first came out – i think that’s the anti-conformity one.)
April 25th, 2005 at 1:29 am
I’m not sitting here with the cd but i can definitly mark this down right this second. Songs 5,6, 7*,12,13 are really good. I think i can leave the rest of them. 1, 8, 9, 10, 11, are incosequential to me. I just don’t really enjoy them enough to stick them out. The rest are bad. Yes i said it. Bad. Skipped due to annoyance. 4. I hate the music. Not only is it something i’ve heard before from NIN but it also grates on my nerves. 5. Can’t get beyond the first lyrics. The music is so bland i just bypass it alltogether. The first lyric is, “I walk around picking stuff up.. I’m the collector.” ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Everytime i think of this, i think of the old kindergarden game of saying the description before the word. “I moo and eat grass. I am a cow.” Sorry its annoying. 6. If i could just get beyond the lyrics. As a techno song, it is very good. It seems as though it is meant to be a techno dance song. BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM hehe 8 or 9. The song with “there is no you/only me” lyric is annoying due to it’s consistent demands. I got the point. The music didn’t do anything interesting for me also. OK now I’m going to break you guys in on a little secret, the human mind enjoys prediction and response. What is often most challenging for the human mind to grasp is something that is completly absurd and makes no sense. My point is that your programming yourselves to like the music by innundating yourselves with it 100% of the time. Maybe this is all music enjoyment is, but i want more then that. Don’t get me wrong, there are some really good songs on the album. Musical enjoyment is very subjective. But i’ve been leary of subjecting myself to a music that has to “grow on me”, because what that means is that i’m listening to it so much that my brain can begin to figure out what the artist is doing and in the end i create what i wanted in the first place. NIN does nothing so spectacular on this album to warrant that kind of dedicated attention. I just learned this factoid first from Trey or Mary or even in my first jazz app class, but then it was later given background in my current Music Appretiation class. According to musical theorists (wish i had the research), the enjoyment portion of music comes from hunt and reward, with repetitive recognition. * I really like the chorus for some fucked up reason, even after trey has destroyed it for me by making me think of the pirate aspect.
April 25th, 2005 at 1:33 am
[quote:3cc69e856d]i was shocked by those lyrics when i first read them[/quote:3cc69e856d] Yeah, well that’s cause you–oh never mind(*). So, Reptile. Yeah. You know, when he performs Reptile live, there’s a line added that puts a whole new perspective on the song. There’s a break near the end of the song where the music starts to built up for the emotional finale and he throws in the line (pleading): Oh, please…don’t..hurt..me..please…please. There’s a conflicting undercurrent going on in the song (especially in the music). An attraction/repulsion. Hence the juxtaposition of “beautiful liar, precious whore”. [quote:3cc69e856d]or have i hit the nail on the head? is trent reznor’s music, at its core, cathartic for men who have been wronged?[/quote:3cc69e856d] You’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head. Except that the music can be cathartic for more than just men who have been wronged (although I guess that’s the largest segment of his audience). Maybe Reptile is too specific with it’s gender references. It all depends on the ears and experiences of the listener. For instance, “Hurt” is apparantly about heroin addiction (Much like Red Hot Chili Peppers’ “Under the Bridge), but I get a different meaning out of it. I think at worst, regardless of what you think of the lyrics, there is always something interesting going on with the music that makes most NIN songs worth listening to. So, what do you think about “Big Man With a Gun”? Ron. (*) I think that horse is dead.
April 25th, 2005 at 1:40 am
[quote:1b7f802c3c=”sophia_de_philo”]ok, the song is “reptile”, and it’s not spiders – it’s “insects.” [/quote:1b7f802c3c] oh no… Man i love reptile… hehe it was a song released on an album that wasn’t really an album, it was like a remix.. (Fixed perhaps?) When i heard that i fell in love with trent’s anger. I was also very angry at women for not noticing me. I was irrational like that. 😉 then there were certain women… who i blamed for everything… yet again.. irrational… [url=http://www.barbelith.com/topic/20727]GASP check this guys track analysis.. my god he has a lot of time on his hands.[/url] the analysis is toward the end.. one of the last posts..
April 25th, 2005 at 1:50 am
[quote:94e1abcc8c=”horselover_fat”]You know, when he performs Reptile live, there’s a line added that puts a whole new perspective on the song. There’s a break near the end of the song where the music starts to built up for the emotional finale and he throws in the line (pleading): Oh, please…don’t..hurt..me..please…please.[/quote:94e1abcc8c] well that’s nice. i mean, at least that makes the woman powerful, in addition to evil. mwahahaha. i’m kidding. sort of. you know, if you’re going to blame me, i might as well go ahead and wicked witch of the west it. [quote:94e1abcc8c]You’ve pretty much hit the nail on the head. Except that the music can be cathartic for more than just men who have been wronged (although I guess that’s the largest segment of his audience). Maybe Reptile is too specific with it’s gender references.[/quote:94e1abcc8c] that’s my impression. it colored my response to his entire body of work. [quote:94e1abcc8c]It all depends on the ears and experiences of the listener. For instance, “Hurt” is apparantly about heroin addiction (Much like Red Hot Chili Peppers’ “Under the Bridge), but I get a different meaning out of it.[/quote:94e1abcc8c] oh, i got that “hurt” was about addiction. and i love that song. it’s really quite beautiful. and man, when johnny cash redoes it. wow. it’s like decades of that kind of lifestyle go into the song. really, that song is good. i shouldn’t have been so quick to judge… i’m sure there are other gems out there in his body of work, and i’m sure that he sings about things other than religion, non-conformity, male anger, and addiction. it’s just all the anger that gets me. i’m just not fond of feeling angry. in fact, it’s a feeling i have trouble holding for very long, unless i am really hurt underneath it, and my outbursts are ignored and treated with silence, in which case i can hold a grudge for years… but usually it deteriorates quickly into sadness – anger, i mean. so that’s basically probably why i haven’t liked any album but [i:94e1abcc8c]the fragile[/i:94e1abcc8c]. they were too angry and i don’t feel enough of that – directed at the same sources as he chooses – to relate. although, ever since i moved to the new york city area, i’ve been angrier… lol. [quote:94e1abcc8c]So, what do you think about “Big Man With a Gun”?[/quote:94e1abcc8c] um. i just read the lyrics. thanks for that by the way, highlight of my night. 😉 no… i think it’s sarcastic. i haven’t heard it, so i wouldn’t know how it sounds, but the lyrics seem sarcastic. it doesn’t bug me like “reptile.” it’s not misogynist. . . it reads like the parody of an angry redneck. hey, did you really want to know that, or did you just want me to laugh at me after i came back from reading that song? 😛
April 25th, 2005 at 2:06 am
ok last post for the night.. need to finish working on my paper… -=-I love that picture you have chosen for your avatar. Death as charecterized in Engrid Bergman’s films.. not sure i remember the racket being in “The Seventh Seal” but i remember the actor/characeture.
April 25th, 2005 at 2:21 am
[quote:efe2d2b332]well that’s nice. i mean, at least that makes the woman powerful, in addition to evil. mwahahaha.[/quote:efe2d2b332] I take it as his way of showing that he is complicit in whatever screwed up relationship he is talking about. “You know, I hate you and everything. I know your bad for me (toxic). I know how you are and I’m still going to throw myself at your mercy. Please don’t hurt me.” There is a self-awareness running through most if not all of his songs that he is as much to blame for his problems as outside forces. “I used to be so big and strong” “I hate myself for what I’ve become”, “Give it to me I’ll throw it away”, “I am the voice inside your head”, and on and on. [quote:efe2d2b332]i’m sure there are other gems out there in his body of work, and i’m sure that he sings about things other than religion, non-conformity, male anger, and addiction.[/quote:efe2d2b332] No, that about covers it. [quote:efe2d2b332]it’s just all the anger that gets me. i’m just not fond of feeling angry[/quote:efe2d2b332]. Then NIN isn’t quite going to be your cup of tea. As for me, I’m not fond of feeling angry, but anger sure is fond of feeling me. [quote:efe2d2b332]it reads like the parody of an angry redneck.[/quote:efe2d2b332] Close. I read him in an interview once state that it was meant as a parody of the (then fairly new) Gangsta-rap phenomenon. I don’t think it has aged well and it can easily be misunderstood, cause it doesn’t really give any cues that “hey, this is a joke” (other than it’s shear over-the-topedness). It has the kind of lyrics that I picture being trotted out during congressional hearings. [url=http://music.yahoo.com/read/news/12045575]Or campaigns[/url]. [quote:efe2d2b332]hey, did you really want to know that, or did you just want me to laugh at me after i came back from reading that song?[/quote:efe2d2b332] Just curious is all. And maybe just having a little fun… You should see the video for “Sin”. Ron. (Never cared much for Big Man with a Gun)
April 25th, 2005 at 2:26 am
[quote:f287b6a6bc]oh no… Man i love reptile… hehe it was a song released on an album that wasn’t really an album, it was like a remix.. (Fixed perhaps?) [/quote:f287b6a6bc] “Reptile” is from the Downward Spiral (Halo 8) There is a truly kick-ass remix titled “Reptilian” on the March of the Pigs single (Halo 7) And a demo version on the deluxe 10th aniversary edition of TDS titled “Liar”. Ron. (Please don’t hurt me)
April 25th, 2005 at 2:29 am
[quote:1a4af33cd8]not sure i remember the racket being in “The Seventh Seal”[/quote:1a4af33cd8] It’s actually from a Parody of Bergman films titled “De Duva/The Dove”. A fifteen minute short film from 1968. Nominated for an Academy Award and everything. I’m currently in search of a copy in any format.
April 25th, 2005 at 2:50 am
[quote:67c2e1aec9]oh no… Man i love reptile… hehe it was a song released on an album that wasn’t really an album, it was like a remix.. (Fixed perhaps?) When i heard that i fell in love with trent’s anger. I was also very angry at women for not noticing me. I was irrational like that. 😉 then there were certain women… who i blamed for everything… yet again.. irrational…[/quote:67c2e1aec9] teehee. i know who that is. so you like reptile, huh? eh. i still think it’s misogynist.
April 25th, 2005 at 2:54 am
[quote:89089936a0]eh. i still think it’s misogynist.[/quote:89089936a0] Can it not be misogynistic and a great song at the same time? Ron. (Can empty, worms everywhere…)
April 25th, 2005 at 3:00 am
[quote:0bbf9f14db]I take it as his way of showing that he is complicit in whatever screwed up relationship he is talking about. “You know, I hate you and everything. I know your bad for me (toxic). I know how you are and I’m still going to throw myself at your mercy. Please don’t hurt me.” There is a self-awareness running through most if not all of his songs that he is as much to blame for his problems as outside forces. “I used to be so big and strong” “I hate myself for what I’ve become”, “Give it to me I’ll throw it away”, “I am the voice inside your head”, and on and on.[/quote:0bbf9f14db] i’ll buy that – about other songs. but i don’t see how the line “please don’t hurt me” repeated in various formations makes him an accomplice to the eve/snake character in “reptile.” [quote:0bbf9f14db][quote:0bbf9f14db]i’m sure there are other gems out there in his body of work, and i’m sure that he sings about things other than religion, non-conformity, male anger, and addiction.[/quote:0bbf9f14db] No, that about covers it.[/quote:0bbf9f14db] yeah i was sort of thinking after i wrote that… hmmm, maybe not. but those are four big issues. [quote:0bbf9f14db][quote:0bbf9f14db]it’s just all the anger that gets me. i’m just not fond of feeling angry[/quote:0bbf9f14db]. Then NIN isn’t quite going to be your cup of tea. As for me, I’m not fond of feeling angry, but anger sure is fond of feeling me.[/quote:0bbf9f14db] yeah. you poor guys. your hormones make you angry, in self-defense… so you can fight reality. our hormones make us insane, in self-defense… so we can ignore it. so we end up with driving angry rock for you guys, and crazy nonsensical frilly empowering piano for us. it’s amusing, really. (i often turn to absurdity as an outlet, and i see that in tori, so, that’s where i’m coming from. i know i’m totally oversimplifying, but i don’t care.) [quote:0bbf9f14db]And maybe just having a little fun…[/quote:0bbf9f14db] thought so. *smirk* i should change my icon to “the editor.”
April 25th, 2005 at 3:01 am
[quote:f6c71f5b56=”horselover_fat”][quote:f6c71f5b56]eh. i still think it’s misogynist.[/quote:f6c71f5b56] Can it not be misogynistic and a great song at the same time?[/quote:f6c71f5b56] no. [quote:f6c71f5b56]Ron. (Can empty, worms everywhere…)[/quote:f6c71f5b56] go outside and eat ’em, hon’. 😉 – m feeling very tori-esque
April 25th, 2005 at 3:13 am
[quote:8d4bcddd02]i’ll buy that – about other songs. but i don’t see how the line “please don’t hurt me” repeated in various formations makes him an accomplice to the eve/snake character in “reptile.” [/quote:8d4bcddd02] “You have all this power over me, but it’s a power I give you because I ‘need to contaminate to alleviate this loneliness’, ergo it’s really all my fault. But that won’t stop me from hating you for the things you’ve done to me.” Yeah, yeah; I’m putting a little bit of a spin on things based on personal experience, but what else can I do? My oh my. Two pages and not a word from Trey. Must be sleeping.
April 25th, 2005 at 3:28 am
[quote:e0378dc9bc=”Arglor”]5. Can’t get beyond the first lyrics. The music is so bland i just bypass it alltogether. The first lyric is, “I walk around picking stuff up.. I’m the collector.” ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Everytime i think of this, i think of the old kindergarden game of saying the description before the word. “I moo and eat grass. I am a cow.” Sorry its annoying.[/quote:e0378dc9bc] i just wanted to say babe – this made me laugh outloud. hysterical! also wanted to comment on this: [quote:e0378dc9bc]OK now I’m going to break you guys in on a little secret, the human mind enjoys prediction and response. What is often most challenging for the human mind to grasp is something that is completly absurd and makes no sense. My point is that your programming yourselves to like the music by innundating yourselves with it 100% of the time. Maybe this is all music enjoyment is, but i want more then that.[/quote:e0378dc9bc] i think it’s a little more complex than that. it’s not just prediction and response the human mind enjoys in music, right? it’s a precarious balance between memory and surprise. in general, you can enjoy a song or music just because you know it. it’s pleasurable to be able to – as you said – anticipate sound. but you can easily burn yourself out this way – burn out the pathways in your mind so that the sound is no longer pleasurable – it’s old news. we’ve all experienced that. but music has varying levels of patternedness. i think we talked about this before, but it’d be cool to see what everyone else has to say. so… take britney spears vs. igor stravinsky. britney spears: hear a song once, it’s catchy, simple, you’ve got it memorized. the pattern is so simple that after you hear it only once, every time you hear it after that, it gives you pleasure. but the pleasure wears out fast too. once you’ve heard it like 10 times you’re like, god damn, that’s enough. igor stravinsky: take “the rite of spring.” the patterns within it are so complex, that when he first played it to a theater, the audience actually got [i:e0378dc9bc]enraged[/i:e0378dc9bc]. some people [i:e0378dc9bc]walked out[/i:e0378dc9bc]. but it has since become critically acclaimed as being way ahead of its time, and to tell you the truth it is one of my favorite pieces of music. its patterns are so understated, so subtle, and the melodies can be so dissonant, that you have to listen to it several times before it starts to give you pleasure. basically, the patterns can only be recognized after a few listenings. and some of the pattern is in listening to [i:e0378dc9bc]the whole piece[/i:e0378dc9bc] over and over. that kind of musical pleasure lasts longer and stands over time. this is a basic difference between pop and classical music if you ask me. classical music’s patterns are more difficult to perceive, more understated. there are no catchy lyrics and only complex patterns to grasp – repetitions of variations on themes. . . no verse 1/chorus/verse 2/chorus/verse 3 structure. this is why i like listening to classical music in the background and why i’m getting so into jazz at the moment. how long does it take to get sick of mozart? charles mingus? and jazz manages to be both complex and spontaneous. pleasureable on first listen, somehow, simultaneously patterned and free. some pop music has come to be less like this. take tom waits for example. p.j. harvey is sometimes like this. kate bush. but i’m not sure that’s pop. that’s more like adult alternative. which is what category i think i’d put [i:e0378dc9bc]the fragile[/i:e0378dc9bc] into.
April 25th, 2005 at 3:30 am
[quote:69530d0524=”horselover_fat”]My oh my. Two pages and not a word from Trey. Must be sleeping.[/quote:69530d0524] or working. or studying, like d-. we’re losers, obviously. home alone with nothing better to do. actually, i’m putting off grading… but i’m entertained!
April 25th, 2005 at 3:32 am
[quote:0efb43ca7f]go outside and eat ’em, hon’. [/quote:0efb43ca7f] Wrong answer. What we were looking for was: what is “it’s time to get a bigger can”. Was just tossing it out there. Devil’s advocate and all. I still don’t view it as misogynistic and I know you do, and I know why you do, and I know why I don’t. I think that there’s a gap beyond my ability to bridge. All that other stuff, I was pretty much pulling out of my ass; but I must say I think it holds up pretty well. Considering I haven’t given that much thought to the song for about ten years. Bringing this back to “with teeth”, I don’t think there are any similar songs on the album. (Don’t think there were any on the Fragile either). I think Trent pretty much tapped the “Oh she hurt me real bad, woe is me” well dry. He seemed to be pretty reliant on that crutch for most of his early career. Ron. (Flip flop flip flop)
April 25th, 2005 at 3:34 am
[quote:a2aa1a3d4a]home alone with nothing better to do. [/quote:a2aa1a3d4a] Not quite alone. I have my children with me tonight. But they’re watching the Spongebob movie. For the second time. In the same night. I think we’ll be playing Trouble after it’s over, unless they go for a third time. Ron. (Lives in a pineapple)
April 25th, 2005 at 3:40 am
[quote:09e22c2446]its patterns are so understated, so subtle, and the melodies can be so dissonant, that you have to listen to it several times before it starts to give you pleasure. basically, the patterns can only be recognized after a few listenings. and some of the pattern is in listening to the whole piece over and over. that kind of musical pleasure lasts longer and stands over time. [/quote:09e22c2446] Once you get past the initial onslaught, er cacophony, or whatever, this pretty much describes NIN’s catalogue from broken onward.
April 25th, 2005 at 3:43 am
[quote:248efb2b9d=”horselover_fat”][quote:248efb2b9d]go outside and eat ’em, hon’. [/quote:248efb2b9d] Wrong answer. What we were looking for was: what is “it’s time to get a bigger can”.[/quote:248efb2b9d] i know. i was just havin’ fun. 🙂 there is no wrong (or right) answer as far as i’m concerned. we can leave the gap unbridged. just thought you guys might like to know… some reasonably open-minded people consider some of what dear trent sings distasteful! (also i wanted to know if i was wrong about what i thought “reptile” was about.) [quote:248efb2b9d]Bringing this back to “with teeth”, I don’t think there are any similar songs on the album. (Don’t think there were any on the Fragile either). [/quote:248efb2b9d] so, i know from trey’s blog that “bite the hand that feeds” is a call to the mindless souls in line for communion to wake up and bite father’s hand off. (amusing.) what are the other songs about? – m raised catholic
April 25th, 2005 at 3:44 am
[quote:7de2d425f6=”horselover_fat”]Not quite alone.[/quote:7de2d425f6] oops. i guess that was just me! 😳
April 25th, 2005 at 3:44 am
A) I love lists. B) I never suggested that it was all there was to enjoying music. There is a hunt and reward part of enjoyment towards music. C) My professor also claims that the reason classical music is unpopular is due to its complexity. D) not sure why i made a list, felt like it. E) You guys are a bunch of blog hogs.. know that? F) Physics is like chess, so says Fenyman god of physics. 😉 g) I’d like to reach Z, but i have to go. H) My last line in my above post was to allude to there being many more reasons for like/love/admiration toward music. I didn’t want to list exactly what goes in the mixture that is like/love/admiration of music because i don’t know. I’m just saying that this activity of repetitive listenings could be simply programming a love for the thing, instead of discovering a love for it. I) Cake or death? CAKE please.
April 25th, 2005 at 3:47 am
[quote:8748fc3b77=”Arglor”]I) Cake or death? CAKE please.[/quote:8748fc3b77] *raising hand* wait. wait. what kind of cake?
April 25th, 2005 at 3:51 am
First off “a withe teethe” (as I will always now call it) seems to me to hold with the “reptile” theme. ALso if it you turn up the radio really loud (not that loud) you can hear something that sounds like screams transformed into mechanical gears, which is very similiar to “reptile”. Plus the theme follows. “she makes you(me) hard” “she will not let me go” “she is holding on” “I am not coming back” The piano part makes me want to turn up my car radio all the way to hear every little bit, but im scared Ill forget the song comes screaming back. The only two songs that I find myself ignoring are “The Collector” and “Love is not enough”. They are good songs, just I tend to zone off after The other ones. I listen repeatedly to 1, 8, 11, 12, 13. Especially 12 & 13. Twelve has that driving guitar and beat towards the end that excites. Then the mechanics behind 13 along with the lyrics make me restart it over and over again. The shift from “bad radio” signal to live performance is awesome in a technical way. (There seems to even be a bass line that sounds like an engine reving). I’ve been thinking about an overall theme of the album and there really isnt one except this. If you accept that 4 thtf is a commentary on his religion and others, then listen to all the songs with the idea that the “you” he is referring to is God. It works really well for songs such as “Only” “All the Love in the world” and “You know what you are”. The funny thing about those songs is the choruses dont seem to really go with the verses. The verses are focused on the singers problems then they switch to a screaming at an ambiguous you. But if you think that he could be shouting at God basically accusing God of getting all the love in the world, not really being there just a figment of his imagination, and that god should really know what he is, then there verse work better. Its like I have all these problems in my life and what the hell are you (God) doing about it. Oh well one demented take on it. Unfortunately there if little within the other songs to justify this notion. Wilbur Grading papers is fun. Grading papers I love. Grading papers makes me a better person. Oh how I wish I wouldnt have had them write about the “oil crisis” that is looming.
April 25th, 2005 at 3:52 am
[quote:e671a87f6b=”horselover_fat”]But they’re watching the Spongebob movie. For the second time. In the same night.[/quote:e671a87f6b] patterns.
April 25th, 2005 at 3:58 am
[quote:feff857d59]so, i know from trey’s blog that “bite the hand that feeds” is a call to the mindless souls in line for communion to wake up and bite father’s hand off. (amusing.) what are the other songs about? [/quote:feff857d59] That’s the first and probably easiest interpretation. But I think it lends itself to broader interpretations. For instance, there is the hand that feeds you communion. But there is also the hand that feeds you the “news of the world”. And the hand the feeds the the latest batch of consumer goods. It could just all be different heads of the same “Beast”. And you know that something is amiss, I mean c’mon “how deep do you believe” when your heart is “black and hollow and cold” to all the shit you’ve been fed all your life. Dunno. Still working on it. “Right where it belongs” follows along these same lines. As for the other songs; “Only”, “Getting Smaller”, and “Everyday is Exactly the Same” can probably be taken at face value: personal observations and self-analysis. I think “Somewhere in Time” may be about someone he knew that died. The rest of them, still not sure at the moment. I’ve been listening to the other songs too much to focus on the rest.
April 25th, 2005 at 3:59 am
Chewing gum is really gross. Chewing gum I hate the most. had willy wonka going through my head when i read trey’s grading papers is fun. grading papers i love… not sure why now that i look at the two they are nothing alike…
April 25th, 2005 at 4:08 am
[quote:23e2ab9a5c]It works really well for songs such as “Only”[/quote:23e2ab9a5c] What if “Only” is about (Sticking with the “Reptile”/misogyny/eve as evil temptress theme): To the woman (or women) he’s been singing about since Pretty Hate Machine; you know, the one who “turned me into this”; he is saying you don’t exist. You never existed. It has always [i:23e2ab9a5c]only[/i:23e2ab9a5c] been me. “I just made you up to hurt myself”? I think this is his “recovery and acceptance” album.
April 25th, 2005 at 4:09 am
[quote:06c2052780]had willy wonka going through my head when i read trey’s grading papers is fun. grading papers i love… [/quote:06c2052780] Me too.
April 25th, 2005 at 5:06 am
This link should lead to the lyrics of all the diff songs on with teeth: http://www.echoingthesound.org/phpbbx/viewtopic.php?t=9681 Let somebody else do all the work, I say. Trey: Read through the “storyline” of Only and see how well my hypothesis holds up. Ron.
April 25th, 2005 at 6:34 am
[quote:4ea71707b2=”horselover_fat”]To the woman (or women) he’s been singing about since Pretty Hate Machine; you know, the one who “turned me into this”; he is saying you don’t exist. You never existed. It has always [i:4ea71707b2]only[/i:4ea71707b2] been me. “I just made you up to hurt myself”?[/quote:4ea71707b2] well, he did pull her out of his ribcage. . . 🙄 [quote:4ea71707b2]I think this is his “recovery and acceptance” album.[/quote:4ea71707b2] this is my theory. of course, i’ve only heard one song off the album. but i noticed – and i noticed you guys said this too – it sounded more like his old stuff. so this might be kinda bitchy to say, considering i haven’t heard the whole thing, but. . . david said marilyn manson said in some biography that trent did a lot of coke. and david also said that [i:4ea71707b2]the fragile[/i:4ea71707b2] actually includes a love song! so here’s my theory . . . what if, trent is trent is trent is trent for albums and albums, partying and making music, whatever, screwing around, getting mad at the women who screw around on him, and then. . . he meets her. the one woman, who doesn’t hurt him, who is a good influence instead of corrupting, who encourages him to clean his act up. and out of this relationship comes abstinence from drugs, and [i:4ea71707b2]the fragile[/i:4ea71707b2]. but then, they break up. and trent reznor is back – [i:4ea71707b2]with teeth[/i:4ea71707b2]. of course, i know nothing. but it makes a good story, no?
April 25th, 2005 at 9:34 am
trent claims the fragile is strictly a response to his grandmother passing away.. apparently she raised him or something..
April 25th, 2005 at 12:57 pm
If you read the current batch of interviews, Trent is still being Trent from before “The Fragile”. I bit of a health nut. He doesnt drink, doesnt smoke, doesnt do drugs. He drinks health drinks and works out. And supposedly he is pretty happy, except for the whole manager fucking him over. He even chalks that one up to naivite(sp). He said in one interview that he was worried about “Only” because it was too “happy”. He remarked he had felt enormous pressure to be the dark and foreboding figure of depression and pain. I think the lyrics follow the attempt to remain dark. He wants to move on and be happy or even content, but he still realizes that fans wont buy the happy-go-lucky Trent Reznor albums. Wilbur
April 25th, 2005 at 5:10 pm
lol. my little theory falls flat! it’s sad that he feels pressure to be “the dark and foreboding figure of depression and pain.” i like his less angry stuff. but then, who would be the speaker for all the things trent stands for? marilyn manson is but a pale imitation.
April 25th, 2005 at 5:26 pm
[b:018410317c]When Thinking Becomes a Problem…[/b:018410317c] [i:018410317c]It started out innocently enough. I began to think at parties now and then — just to loosen up. Inevitably, though, one thought led to another, and soon I was more than just a social thinker. I began to think alone — “to relax,” I told myself — but I knew it wasn’t true. Thinking became more and more important to me, and finally, I was thinking all the time. That was when things began to sour at home. One evening I turned off the TV and asked my wife about the meaning of life. She spent the night at her mother’s. I began to think on the job. I knew that thinking and employment don’t mix, but I couldn’t stop myself. I began to avoid friends at lunchtime so I could read Thoreau and Kafka. I would return to the office dizzied and confused, asking, “What is it exactly we are doing here?” One day the boss called me in. He said, “Listen, I like you, and it hurts me to say this, but your thinking has become a real problem. If you don’t stop thinking on the job, you’ll have to find another job.” This gave me a lot to think about. I came home early after my conversation with the boss. “Honey,” I confessed, “I’ve been thinking . . . ” “I know you’ve been thinking,” she said, “and I want a divorce!” “But, Honey, surely it’s not that serious.” “It is serious,” she said, lower lip aquiver. “You think as much as a college professor, and college professors don’t make any money. So if you keep on thinking, we won’t have any money!” “That’s a faulty syllogism,” I said impatiently. She exploded in tears of rage and frustration, but I was in no mood to deal with the emotional drama. “I’m going to the library,” I snarled as I stomped out the door. I headed for the library, in the mood for some Nietzsche. I roared into the parking lot with NPR on the radio and ran up to the big glass doors. They didn’t open. The library was closed. To this day, I believe that a Higher Power was looking out for me that night. Leaning on the unfeeling glass, whimpering for Zarathustra, a poster caught my eye. “Friend, is heavy thinking ruining your life?” it asked. You probably recognize that line. It comes from the standard Thinkers Anonymous poster. Which is why I am what I am today: a recovering thinker. I never miss a TA meeting. At each meeting we watch a non-educational video; last week it was “Porky’s.” Then we share experiences about how we avoided thinking since the last meeting. I still have my job and things are a lot better at home. Life just seemed. . . easier, somehow, as soon as I stopped thinking. I think the road to recovery is nearly complete for me. Today, I registered to vote as a Republican.[/i:018410317c]
April 25th, 2005 at 5:33 pm
real funny. you edit to much.. in point where i read your post… logged in and began typing my response, you had already edited the page and reordered the lines… make “today i registered to vote as a republican” a part of the paragraph above it.
April 25th, 2005 at 5:41 pm
[quote:77772a43e9=”Arglor”]real funny. you edit to much.. in point where i read your post… logged in and began typing my response, you had already edited the page and reordered the lines… make “today i registered to vote as a republican” a part of the paragraph above it.[/quote:77772a43e9] i know. it looked annoyingly long. so i wanted to scrunch it.
April 25th, 2005 at 5:44 pm
[quote:21991a81fa=”Arglor”]real funny. you edit to much.. in point where i read your post… logged in and began typing my response, you had already edited the page and reordered the lines… make “today i registered to vote as a republican” a part of the paragraph above it.[/quote:21991a81fa] hey, what do you think about getting the ny times on the weekends so we could keep abreast of cultural events, music and film festivals, jazz concerts, and so forth? it’s $2.40 a week according to an offer i just got, for the first 8 weeks. if we timed it so it started once you got here . . . and if we split the cost . . . it’d be real cheap. ??? i dunno. think you would read it?
April 25th, 2005 at 5:47 pm
[quote:25ee9a0cea=”sophia_de_philo”][quote:25ee9a0cea=”Arglor”]real funny. you edit to much.. in point where i read your post… logged in and began typing my response, you had already edited the page and reordered the lines… make “today i registered to vote as a republican” a part of the paragraph above it.[/quote:25ee9a0cea] hey, what do you think about getting the ny times on the weekends so we could keep abreast of cultural events, music and film festivals, jazz concerts, and so forth? it’s $2.40 a week according to an offer i just got, for the first 8 weeks. if we timed it so it started once you got here . . . and if we split the cost . . . it’d be real cheap. ??? i dunno. think you would read it?[/quote:25ee9a0cea] actually i think the cost would be so small that we wouldn’t need to split it. i should just get it and not worry about it. except i don’t think i would want to sit down to read the news part . . . would you? it’s just, it’s a really long paper. 😳
April 25th, 2005 at 5:57 pm
I’m going to post this on my blog, M. Love it. Hope that’s cool.
April 25th, 2005 at 6:32 pm
[quote:c9933457e8=”mealymel”]I’m going to post this on my blog, M. Love it. Hope that’s cool.[/quote:c9933457e8] of course, no problem, it was just an email forward from a writer friend who knows i am dating a philosophy major. 🙂
April 25th, 2005 at 8:54 pm
looks like god called off the dogs… http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7630968/
April 26th, 2005 at 6:11 pm
hehe i know it sounds bad but i would not read the paper… If you want to get the paper, we can get it. I will not be reading it though. The only reason i’d use it is to find what is going on in New York that week, but i was thinking about subscribing to that magazine Time Out New York City for that.
April 26th, 2005 at 7:06 pm
i wouldn’t either. it’s long!!! i don’t have the time. . . do you think time out will keep us abreast of cultural, musical, and film festivals; jazz concerts; opera; plays; book reviews; etc.? ooh, i forgot about book reviews. i might want the ny times just for the book reviews. i think there’s a magazine that comes with it on the weekends with book reviews. . . i really should be reading those. oh and didn’t mark say that time out had a tendency to come too late to tell you what’s going on at the beginning of the week? that would suck. i guess we could always use the unread paper, um, for kitty litter . . . ha ha ha.
April 26th, 2005 at 8:36 pm
Read it on the internet. Less time less waste. Besides you two spend a lot of time there anyway. Just adding my 2 cents.
April 26th, 2005 at 9:43 pm
thanks good idea. it costs money to read it on there though, too (don’t know how much; i’ll have to check), and i wonder if the book reviews actually show up there. . .
April 27th, 2005 at 8:37 am
Okay, new interpretation for “Only”: I’ve been listening to it as a kind of anti-“down in it” (“up in it”?). I think the heavy use of synth music (heavy even for NIN) is meant to mock the overall synth sound of down in it (and maybe by extension, all of Pretty Hate Machine). Also, Trent uses that sort of talking/rapping/spoken word style from DII, but again, a little more pronounced. And of course there are the knowing references to “the dot” and floating in the abstract. Overall the lyrics and the delivery convey a sense of sarcasm, amusement even. So who is the “you” that doesn’t exist? That would be Trent. Or rather the persona he created and adopted beginning way back during PHM and carried through The Downward Spiral. The one who likes to wallow in self pity and constantly picks at scabs that he can’t leave alone. “i just made you up to hurt myself” And with this song, he’s abandoning that persona. And what is left is the “real” or “complete” Trent. “yes i am alone but then again i always was as far back as i can tell i think maybe it’s because you were never really real to begin with” This self-realization is a recurring theme in many of the songs on the album. Thoughts? Trey? Ron. (Drifting in the abstract)
April 27th, 2005 at 8:07 pm
Where do you all find the time to write so many entries!I can’t even get my lesson plans written or write my blog. You young people…sigh
April 27th, 2005 at 8:41 pm
[quote:eb1dadeaf3]Where do you all find the time to write so many entries![/quote:eb1dadeaf3] Three words (speaking for myself): Poor time management. Most of my posts come when I get off work (around 3 in the morning) or when I get up (sometime in the afternoon). The other night was a rare Monday off for me and circumstances kind of led to a cascade of posts. Some topics lend themselves to more activity than others. I’m still wouldn’t touch “How do you react?” with a ten foot pole. Ron. (Doesn’t know how he would react…glad he doesn’t have to)
April 29th, 2005 at 1:35 am
Trent is a genius. He takes a genre geared towards young males, but creates lines such as “Nothing can stop me now!” Teenage girls become empowered and easily enthralled with chanting this line while their fists are raised in the air. Nothing Can Stop Me NOW!!! Wilbur
April 29th, 2005 at 2:17 am
[quote:f1e582c5cd]Where do you all find the time to write so many entries!I can’t even get my lesson plans written or write my blog. You young people…sigh[/quote:f1e582c5cd] Dramke, you should be posting more. I havent had a nice little post to read of yours for a long time. I know we are all curious as to how the end of school is going. Wilbur
April 29th, 2005 at 7:12 am
[url=http://www.myspace.com/nineinchnerds]This is wrong on so many levels[/url]. I feel dirty for even having seen it. Ron. (Numa who?)